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38.103.63.60

I'm a dad of 2 year old twin boys. And this month we had a little girl. My question is, Our boys are fairly delayed in speech. Any books out there that might me help them talk more. They understand almost everythig we say, but you can see the frustration in their faces that they can't speak their minds.Any recommendations would be great. We have had countless evaluations for speech therapy but the wait is 4 to 6 months before they can be seen. So I want step in before it gets worse.
Brent
email: b.alan@comcast.net
8/29/2006 at 4:12 (CT)
Hi Ladies!

It's been a long time since I last posted, but the time has come for me to give you another heads up. The Moms Talk boards will be migrating to the vBulletin system that already exists for the rest of the community. This format is going to be retired.

I know that on one hand, it might not be a welcomed change, but on the other hand, it will provide you with additional security (ability to form private groups) and a resolution to current glitches (No more 40 character rule, and you will be able to post urls without spaces). You will also be integrated into the message board community and more able to participate in upcoming contests and programs aimed at increasing camaraderie and excitement throughout the message boards.

I don't have an actual date for the final migration. I do know that these posts here will not be deleted. If at all possible, they will migrate to the new board in their current state. At the very least, they will be archived and will be searchable. You can visit the new board and start posting at anytime:
http://interact. iparenting. com/boards/forumdisplay. php?f=6689 (There are no spaces in this url, but in order to post this, I had to add a space after each period. Please remove the spaces before you attempt to use the url.)

If you need any assistance at all, please email me.

Shel, iP Senior Editor
Shel
email: shel@iparenting.com
8/28/2006 at 3:20 (CT)
We have identical twin daughters who will be five years old in a month. We are having some trouble dealing with their constant moodiness, but we are especially having trouble with potty training.....YET! One of our girls just seems to refuse to even try to keep her pants dry. They were six weeks premature, but I'm pretty sure that is not the issue. It's more an attitude thing. She can stay dry if we are not around (like at preschool). I am a stay-at-home mom so I am with her everyday, all day - so sadly she is usually running around in wet pants! Neither of our girls are anywhere near being dry at night. Does anyone have some good advice on this whole potty training thing? Please let me know if you've got the answer!
Roxie
email: sm_rm7greens@charter.net
8/21/2006 at 23:35 (CT)
Rachel,

I agree with you on th chlomid issue. It should not be given to anyone who doesn't have fertility problems just to have multiples. I am susprised a doctor would prescribe it. For those of us who have problems it is great thing. But remember it only helsp with you cycle and egg production it does not guarentee pregnancy. Pregnancy and kids are a gift from God not matter how much medication is used it may not happen if it is not Gods will.
cindy
email:
8/17/2006 at 22:20 (CT)
From one "firemans wife" to another; if he doesn't want any more children so bad, why doesn't he have a vasectomy?
Kimberly W
email: searchndestroy@sbcglobal.net
8/16/2006 at 10:57 (CT)
Hey everyone. I'm getting ready for the twins but I dont know where to start. I would like to have two car seats that would work in a stroller. Any suggestions? I am desperate to find something affordable!
Gina
email: princess_gina04@yahoo.com
8/4/2006 at 14:06 (CT)
My sister-in-law wants to get on Clomid, even though she does nto have fertility problems, so she can try and have twins. I think this is horrible. That drug is for women who are having trouble getting pregnant. I seem to be the only one in my family who thinks this is wrong. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Rachel
email:
8/4/2006 at 4:00 (CT)
To the mom with 14 month old twin girls weaning off bottles....When I began transitioning my twin girls I used a sippie cup that had a soft spout similar to a bottle. Wal-Mart has one by Nuby. Then I encouraged baby doll play where they could be the mom and talked to them about being big girls. Before long the soft spouts were wearing out and we were on to hard spout cups and regular cups.

Good luck!!!
Lisa
email: lisahott@sbcglobal.net
8/2/2006 at 3:37 (CT)
hi everyone, im new here but i have some concerns on my mind. i've always been a very small girl weighing only 110 lbs when i got pregnant with twin girls. ive since gained 18lbs and i am 25 weeks pregnant. i am very worried about them being born too small considering i dont know if my body can physically handle it. any advice? what is the typical weigh for twins?
Gina
email: princess_gina04@yahoo.com
7/27/2006 at 15:26 (CT)
KarenMarie
Jeremy and Nathan (9months)

Any advice on sleeping through then night? I am going crazy as they are both still nursing all night long!!! It is getting better, but I would love to get 4 hours of sleep at a strech. It is getting the point where I am crabby at dh, at the boys, and I just don't want to be!

Gabriela-- I am with you! Life is so overwhelming sometimes. It does get easier, or at least I am better at dealing with it. Yes, I have some PPD at times, or it could be just plain jealousy that my dh gets to leave the house and go to work. (I never thought I would say that!) But ask away, I'll answer what I can.

Abbie-- My parents would not let us cash the check or spend the money until the thank you note was written.
KarenMarie
email:
7/26/2006 at 10:25 (CT)
I am a Mom of boy/girl twins. They turned four months as of July 24th. I love them dearly but I'm totally overwhelmed with day to day living. Fortunately, I have alot of help from family and a few of very empathetic friends. I am dealing with postpartum depression and I wanted to know if there is anyone else going through this out there?? Especially with multiples......I have so many questions but I'll be good and leave it at that. Thanks so much for listening and I hope to get alot of advice from all you other terrific parents!!
Gabriela
email: gabiecrow@sbcglobal.net
7/26/2006 at 3:07 (CT)
I have a question for the mothers of older twins.
Does it really get easier? People keep telling me that it will get easier.
My girls are 13 months and it seems to be getting harder.
Lori
email: lorisha.yorke@careworks.com
7/26/2006 at 0:09 (CT)
Lori,
My twins are 2 and a half now, but I think they were close to 19 months when we got the bottle weened. My mother watches them while I work and DH helps put them to bed at night. They were both very resistant to getting rid of the bottle.

Eventually I put all the bottles away and bought sippy cups with soft silicone nipples. They were almost like bottles, but weren't.

We used those whenever we normally did bottles (first thing in the morning and right before bed were the last to go). It didn't take long before they were totally off. Now I can't get them to drink enough milk.

HTH,
Heather
Heather
email: heather@twinshoppe.com
7/25/2006 at 4:49 (CT)
Someone HELP!!!

My 4 1/2 year old twin daughters won't stop crying!!

All of sudden they're crying for everything. For every reason in the world. If I tell them to brush their teeth 1 cries, if I tell them to put on their shoes 1 cries, if i tell them we're having a taco dinner 1 cries, if I tell them its Tuesday 1 cries! I ignore them until its hazardous. For instance 1 cried this morning for 45 minutes until she puked! My 9 year old son, my neighbors and I are going crazy from all the crying .... anyone ever experienced such a thing? Please help!!
Shani
email: msshani07@yahoo.com
7/25/2006 at 0:26 (CT)
Hi,
Am interested to have a twinboys.. what are the procedure i have to follow during the sexual intercourse to conceive twinboys?? what are the food i have to eat??.

Please help me to get twinboys.

Thanks & Regards,
Balamurugan.
Balamurugan
email: bala_thangam1@yahoo.com
7/24/2006 at 21:27 (CT)
I have 14 month old twin girls. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions of how to ween them off the bottle. They seem so dependent on those things. I want to fade them out altogether but I work during the day and my hubby is with them all day and he won't stop giving them bottles. I advised him that it's time to ween but he insists that the girls become unbareable if they don't have their daily doses with the bottles.
How did some of you fade the bottles out? Anybody else have 14 month old twins still using the bottles?
Lori
email: lorisha.yorke@careworks.com
7/19/2006 at 1:48 (CT)
re: thank you notes

My twin boys just had their bar mitzvah. On a sheet of paper, I wrote 2 different wordings to write as a standard thank you for everyone (and a different one for money and another for other gifts.)

One twin writes his thank you on top, the other on the bottom of the same thank you note.

We gave them a goal of writing 10 a day and if they finish them in 2 weeks, they'll get to go out to eat.

I am addressing them and did the return addresses on my printer as well as the thank you notes.

Good luck!

Phyllis
email: ribakowp@hac1.org
7/18/2006 at 23:15 (CT)
I think it us just wrong to make your older twins dress alike. That should not happen past the age of 2. Don't tell me children in preschool or elementary want to look like their sibling. My mom did this to me and my twin sister and we hated it. She's buy two of everything when she was out shopping. Twins are individuals and should be treated as such.
Rebecca
email:
7/12/2006 at 9:07 (CT)
I'm having trouble getting my 18-year-old twins to understand the importance of thank you notes. They graduated in May, and got a lot of money from friends and family. I cannot get them to sit down long enough to send out notes. Advice?
Abbie
email:
7/7/2006 at 23:07 (CT)
My twin daughters are almost three. I'm a family physican who had extra training in pediatric dermatology. Thank goodness my babies have pretty normal skin. Still, I followed the advice I heard so many pediatric dermatologists give to parents: bathe babies infrequently, if at all, and use soap only when absolutely necessary.

Starting when they were a couple weeks old we did frequently take our twins in the bathtub with us, to keep them used to the whole experience, but not using any soap at all. If Daddy wasn't around to help, I just sat a bouncy seat next to the bathtub, and used it to park a baby while I was getting in or out or shampooing my own hair. I used Selson blue or my own (efficient) generic shampoo/conditioner-in-one, on the scalp of the twin who had a little cradle cap. We used Dove soap for sensitive skin to wash the neck of the one that drooled all the time. Otherwise I swear we never used soap on their bodies at all the first couple of years. I always tried to lube each baby all over with generic Eucerin cream (not lotion)once a day. They always looked and smelled as sweet and fresh as their friends.

I stay away from skin products with any fragrance at all--even "baby fragrance" and even essential oils--all of those can bring on eczema. Several options work great: lanolin, Eucerin cream(comes in generic now, lots cheaper), Aquaphor, petroleum jelly, even crisco shortening. Lanolin seems to thwart diaper rash the best. (I always found it next to the breastfeeding supplies)

Now that they're toddlers playing in the mud, if they want or appear to need a bath, I ask them if they want to take a bath or if they just want a "sink bath." If the dirt doesn't appear to be just rinsing off, I'll help it a tiny bit, using a tiny amount of dove (Unscented ivory if the dirt is greasy). The sink bath option works well when they otherwise just aren't in the mood for bathing. It also becomes a necessary twice daily ritual when one has a diaper bath--which is rare. The toddler can sit on the edge of the sink, feet in the water, back leaning against me. Usually I just wash the feet, hands, and crotch with soap, and wipe the face with water. If it's really been a while since the hair was washed, It can be done with a washcloth, using very little water, so as not to drip into face.

Of course, they still take every opportunity to join me when I'm taking a bath--and these are great times to shampoo their heads. But if one is not in the mood i don't usually push. A reluctant twin will sometimes change her mind if I comment on the oatmeal or dirt I see in her hair.

They loved Bubble bath, but one twin developed the predictable eczematous rash over half her trunk, so we stopped using Bubble bath. Now for a treat I offer to let them take a "Color" bath, and just drop a few drops of the food coloring of their choice in the water.

We never once used the little baby bathtub we had received at a baby shower. I finally gave it away.

All any newborn needs is a thorough skin lubrication at least once a day with something greasy, such as listed above--and occasional party time with mommy or daddy in the tub (trying never to be scary) securely supported by loving hands, cuddling, floating, cooing, singing. Relax. Don't worry about having a clean baby. (We should wash our own hands a lot!)
jess
email: sjessylor@yahoo.com
6/18/2006 at 14:12 (CT)
Hey I am the mother of almost 3 year old identical twin girls. I am the 1% of the 99% affective birth control. But we wouldn't give them back for anything.
Its been a long time since I posted. My girls were MOMO twins and born by C-section at 35 weeks. I had steroid shots for their lungs and they would have been discharged before me. The were 5 lbs 1 and 5 lbs 7. We were lucky.
I was just wondering, have any of you had a husband who is very ABSOLUTELY NO MORE CHILDREN.
I am almost afraid month to month that I will be pregnant. It was so easy for me to get pregnant, I am afraid it will happen again. I am on the patch and take every prcaution possible. If you have any suggestions please let me know.

I would also like to know if anyone has heard from Meg to see if her babies are doing OK. I went back and can't find anything. Please let me know.
firemanns_wife
email: firemanns_wife@yahoo.com
6/14/2006 at 10:15 (CT)
Hi other Jennifer! :)
Wow, we DO have a lot in common! I feel exactly the same as you do about the dirt and typical "kid" messes---many many evenings were spent with my finger curled in a tiny fist praying that my boys would make it home and be healthy. That trip home from the hospital without the babies----ugh. Now I can laugh off the flooded bathroom floor and cherish the crashes of busy little guys running all over the house! If I ever get to the point where I want to change my name and move away, I just pull out their baby books where I'd posted the pictures from the NICU (several days after they were born, since the first few days we couldn't take pictures) and remember how it felt. I'll be in trouble if they realize that as they get older and pull out the albums every time they get into trouble!
How long were your girls in NICU? We also celebrated all the milestones along the way---taking them off the ventilators, moving from the flat bed to the incubator, the first nursing experience (a disaster but the second and future attempts went much better); all the things it would be easy to take for granted with a full-term baby. I got to hold both boys (on different nights) at just under 3 weeks, although my husband got to hold one of our boys briefly during the c-section. I remember being horrified at the tubes down their throats and the huge IVs in their tiny, skinny little arms---and they had to keep them sedated, so we didn't get to see any signs of healthy babies for a long long time. (It seems like forever, but really only about 10 days) Similar to what you'd heard, several different nurses told me that Caucasian baby boys had the hardest time surviving as preemies. Strange, I wonder what it is about their physiological makeup that contributes to that.
But hey, we both made it through those horrible--wonderful first weeks, didn't we? :) And like you, I've also worked hard with these guys to make sure that their slow start didn't keep them from achieving. (at least so far--what they do when they're teenagers remains to be seen...)
That's wonderful what you're doing for the NICU!!! We donated to Make a Wish in their name and my Grandma and I sewed some of those covers for the incubators like what they had over our boys' while they were so sensitive to light---someone had done the same thing for their child before us, thankfully.
I just look back on the whole situation and wonder if I would have done the IVF if I'd known what it was like to have them in the NICU, but it's a no-brainer in light of the wonderful little boys I enjoy every day now!!!
Best of luck with your girls!
JEN FROM TX
email:
6/13/2006 at 6:22 (CT)
KarenMarie
mom to Nathan and Jeremy (7 months)

Selena-- I am still bfing my boys too, and while I don't go to MOM meetings, I did go to LaLeche league meetings. (Always someone willing to hold the "other" boy, and no feeling funny about bfing in public!)

Valerie-- Naps are hard! Have you tried putting a crib in your room? (Or using a pack and play for naps?) My boys wake each other up too, but we just deal with it. I try to get to the fussy boy soon after he wakes up, or put them down in different rooms (the pack n play is in the family room.)

Danelle-- I know what you mean. I am often thankful that my twins are my only! My advice would be to get organized. Use the trick that a day care or preschool would use. Color code things, have cubbies, and a schedule!

Abagail-- Just because they have idetical outfits doesn't mean they have to wear them on the same day! I usually don't dress my boys identically, but sometimes they end up like that. (My boys are fraternal and look nothing alike!) Maybe you can talk to the family about getting matching outfits if they insist.

Lisette-- If they look that different at 1, most likely not.
KarenMarie
email:
6/7/2006 at 9:36 (CT)
Hi Jen,
We have a lot in common! I was also on Mag Sulfate, wore the monitoring device on my belly every day for a month while on bedrest at home and got the steroid shots. I also had the pump in my leg of Brethine/Terbutaline which made me shake like crazy. I agree with your comment re having to see your babies thru the incubator glass with tubes and wires all over them...I was able to hold one of my daughters the next day after she was born but my other daughter could not be held until a week after her birth. I have been told that preemie girls do better and that anything over 30 weeks "the odds are on the babies side" but again, every baby is different. I worried about my daughters until they were about 8 months old and I saw them reaching the dev milestones of a 6 month old. We also took them to the evalutations (I figured the more experts who saw them the better in case there wasa problem) and today they are brilliant and advanced little girls...I worked hard with them to help them catch up and I know having gone thru such a terrifying ordeal has made me a more patient, thankful and grateful mother and person all around. I no longer worry about dirt on the carpet and I celebrate the crayon marks on my living room walls...I feel like I cherish my children that much more because I had to hope that they would come home and not have any problems from having been born so early. We even started a charity in their honor and are raising funds to buy and donate two GE incubators to the NICU that took care of them.

Glad your babies are also fine...not many people understand what we went through so if you need a "buddy", send me an email at jcohen520@aol.com

Jennifer
Jennifer
email: jcohen520@aol.com
6/6/2006 at 3:11 (CT)
I also had preemies---I started having problems and was on bedrest from 3 months. The contractions started around that time, but they were minor enough that I could be monitored from home (I had that pump that sent meds into my leg constantly, can't remember the name of the meds, and had to wear that contraction monitor several times during the day). They put a circlage in and that slowed the dialation. I was also diabetic and on insulin (we couldn't get the numbers right on diet alone since I was on strict bedrest and couldn't exercise). I had pre-eclampsia so I had to have my blood pressure and protein levels monitored a lot too. (I went from day to day by way of doctor's appts and in-home nurses). I went in for my first round of magnesium at 24 weeks after 2-minute-apart contractions that couldn't be stopped with repeated bolus from my pump. With multiple hospitalizations and frequent scares, we made it to an emergency c-section at 29 weeks (the pre-eclampsia was suddenly dangerous and I was dialating even with the circlage---ouch). I thank the steriod shots that my doctor ordered, for my babies being born at just over 3 pound each. They went into the NICU and both were on ventilators (if you've never had to look at your babies through glass while they were covered in wires and tubes, and were too sensitive to even touch until they were 4 weeks old, you need to count yourself very lucky). After 5 weeks and 1 day, our little guys came home to their now-terrified parents and did very very well. They have had NO negative effects from the experience, and despite being so small at birth, they are only slightly behind in size (one boys is in 75% in height, but only 25% in weight---but his Daddy is shaped the same way). We had them evaluated for the first two years by Early Childhood Intervention (it's free, definitely consider it if for nothing else than to reassure you that they are developing normally). This isn't bragging, but they've always been considered developmentally advanced, even once they started preschool this past year. Their doctor comments every time we go in that he cannot believe how they are doing, considering how premature they were and all the problems I had during the pregnancy. The perinatologist said that they were so strong at birth BECAUSE of all the problems I'd had, that stress makes them stronger. Anyways, TAKE HEART---difficult pregnancies and prematurity aren't necessarily a sentence of doom! :)
jen
email:
6/6/2006 at 1:57 (CT)
Hi! I was scared to bathe my twins too---I was so afraid I'd drop them (they were sooo tiny) and I couldn't figure out how to do two at once. What I did find that worked was one fo two ways, depending on how I was feeling:
1. place a big, fluffy towel in the bottom of the bathtub, fill the tub only a few inches, shut of the AC, and lay both babies on their backs in the water on the towels. This worked really well while they weren't moving around too much---the water was lower than their faces, really only an inch or two deep, but they could splash their feet and I could wash them individually without worrying about the other. Then I'd take them out and bundle them in towels right there on the mat in front of the tub, so they were never out of my sight.
2. I'd put both babies in their little carriers on the kitchen table, then put some warm soapy water in the kitchen sink (once they could sit up assisted---before that I'd use their little baby tub). Then I could bathe one baby while the other talked to us from his carrier. Once one was done with his bath, I'd wrap him in a towel and put him in his carrier while I washed the other. It wasn't too scary once I got the strategy down! I also didn't soap up the baby, but rather I'd soap up the washcloth and wash it over he baby---that was, the baby never got so slippery that I was afraid I'd drop him. Also, my doctor said that a bath every single day isn't necessary, and in fact one of my kids has eczema so he said only use soap about once a week---making bath time even easier! :)
jen
email:
6/6/2006 at 1:42 (CT)
I am scared to death of bathing my twins. My husband has been doing it, but now he's working late and won't be able to help. Any advice?
Elaine
email:
6/5/2006 at 4:06 (CT)
Petie,

Hi! This is my first time posting. I also have 2 sets of twins. I have identical twin boys who are 19 years old and fraternal twin girls who are 2 years old. Life is very interesting at my house! I am a member of our local multiples group and there is another mom who has two sets as well, hers are all boys. I would be interested to know the stats on multiple multiples!

DeeDee
Dee Dee
email: djmesaros@yahoo.com
6/1/2006 at 22:18 (CT)
Hi Everyone,
This is my first time posting here.
I am the lucky mom of twin 3-year-old fraternal daughters. I went into preterm labor at 26 weeks, was in the hospital for 5 weeks and made it to 31 weeks and my girls spent 5 weeks in NICU. That was the worst experience of my life but today by the grace of Gd my daughters are healthy and smart little girls without any problems from being born so early. I'll always consider myself to be the luckiest person in the world.

For those of you who have preemies, please feel free to email me. I know how hard it is and that most of your friends will not understand. I do and I'm here if you need a buddy.

Jcohen520@aol.com
Jennifer
email: jcohen520@aol.com
5/23/2006 at 5:01 (CT)
Hello Everyone! I have TWIN BOYS and they just turned 1 years old, my question is: 1 boy looks white like daddy and 1 boy looks spanish like me. Can they still be identical twins?
Lisette
email: pooletulia@aol.com
5/17/2006 at 23:22 (CT)
Hello everyone. This is my first posting. I am the mother of 6 with a baby due in June. I have fraternal twin boys that turned two in April. I do like to dress them alike so people know that they are twins. This has no effect on their own little personalities. They are both very different despite being dressed the same. As for the moms with a large number of kids, I feel for you. It is not easy. I try to stay well organized with a marker calendar that stays on the fridge. This way, my husband knows what is going on also. Right now I have 3 kids in soccer, 1 in basketball, 1 in track, and 1 in dance, not to mention 2 in preschool three days a week. Just hang in there, it does get somewhat easier as they grow. My oldest is almost 12. Another big help is getting the kids to pitch in with chores no matter how simple, it still helps. I hope I have helped. Just email me if anyone would like to talk. Give me some time to respond, because I am very busy.
Brandy
email: Raven0719@msn.com
5/11/2006 at 5:35 (CT)
card cash credit machine register
cash pos register system, cash register ring up, cash picture register, card cash credit machine register, cash register screen touch, cash leapfrog register
card cash credit mac
email: combo@asd.com
5/9/2006 at 2:20 (CT)
What are some symptoms of having Twins? There are 3 sets of twins in my family over the yrs. I am now 2 moths pregnant. I have gained 8lbs and have a pretty big pouch. Is it possible to know if I am having twins before my 20 week sonogram?
Truth
email: babyheiden@gmail.com
5/3/2006 at 2:02 (CT)
I do not think twins should be dressed alike at any time. We're having trouble right now with my husband's family who insist on buying identical outfits for my twin 2-year-olds. I think they are two different people and should dress to reflect that.
Abagail
email:
4/28/2006 at 4:58 (CT)
I am a mom of 7 week old twin boys and i have a 16 month old ason that willl be 3 next month and a 6 year old daughter i have alot going on and have no clue how to make things easier in life for all my kids and i dont have time for a support group, by the way i envy those who only have one child or even only a set of twins,lol, help please
danelle
email: laderoot@msn.com
4/27/2006 at 2:12 (CT)
Hi! I'm new to the board. I am a stay at home mom of 13 month old twin boys. I have worked in day care for 10 years before having my children and was always able to help the parents with their parenting dilemas, now the shoe's on the other foot and I'm lost!

We live in a 2 bedroom apartment and my boys share a room, well I'm having a problem with one waking the other up and not being able to get them to sleep again. This typically happens during nap time. I'm also trying to figure out a better way to get them to sleep. They fall asleep on their bottle and I then lay them down. I've done the whole go to sleep on your own thing with my niece, but it was just her and she coudn't disturb. I'm trying to get them on 1 nap a day as well 'cuz they take 2 45 min-1 hr. naps and it nots working. I really need advice /what's worked for other moms in this situation 'cuz I'm at a loss.

Thanks!
Valerie
Valerie
email: valeriechmielak@sbcglobal.net
4/26/2006 at 22:21 (CT)
Hi! I'm new to the board. I am a stay at home mom of 13 month old twin boys. I have worked in day care for 10 years before having my children and was always able to help the parents with their parenting dilemas, now the shoe's on the other foot and I'm lost!

We live in a 2 bedroom apartment and my boys share a room, well I'm having a problem with one waking the other up and not being able to get them to sleep again. This typically happens during nap time. I'm also trying to figure out a better way to get them to sleep. They fall asleep on their bottle and I then lay them down. I've done the whole go to sleep on your own thing with my niece, but it was just her and she coudn't disturb. I'm trying to get them on 1 nap a day as well 'cuz they take 2 45 min-1 hr. naps and it nots working. I really need advice /what's worked for other moms in this situation 'cuz I'm at a loss.

Thanks!
Valerie
Valerie
email: valeriechmielak@sbcglobal.net
4/26/2006 at 22:03 (CT)
There is a Mom's of Twins club in the Louisville, KY area:

www. louisvilletwinsclub. com

I joined the one in my area and it is a great resource for support and advice.

Lulu
Lulu
email: lulu31_1999@yahoo.com
4/19/2006 at 20:06 (CT)
hello ladies does anyone know of a twins club for moms in the louisville, ky area
Nicole
email: shortycarmel78@hotmail.com
4/14/2006 at 23:13 (CT)
Hi I'm the mom of b/g twins that will be 1 year old tomorrow! What a year it has been! The ride has been a wild one, the dizzying highs, the sickening lows and EVERYTHING inbetween! Sometimes the stress brought me to the brink of insanity and then again I never thought I could feel such happiness and love. I was just wondering how other mom's out there deal with the ups and downs of "twindom", and what you do to relieve the stress?

Also wondering if there are any mom's of twins out there from Long Island, NY?
Sharon
email: kns218@aol.com
4/11/2006 at 20:39 (CT)
Any moms in the MInneapolis, MN area? I'm really not up for going to meetings yet since I'm still nursing my 5 month old b/g twins. But I am interested in getting to know some other moms!
Selena
email: selenanmulder@hotmail.com
4/10/2006 at 21:39 (CT)
Hi there, just wanted to drop a quick note to see if there are any mothers of "multiple multiples" out there? I am the mother of two sets of twins, ages 15 and 11 and would love to hear from others in the same situation.



Petie
email: petie1961@hotmail.com
4/8/2006 at 23:40 (CT)
Hi Ladies!
I have 7 year old fraternal twin boys. They were great babies, always on the same routine and schedule. They have their sibling moments of fighting and tattle-telling, but they are absolutely the best of friends. They look a lot alike, but they are as different as night and day and I couldn't be happier. My husband and I agreed while I was pregnant that we would never compare them to each other and we would always give them the chance to be their own person. They've been given the chance to make their own choices about who the are and who they want to be.

The twins are the only children I have, but I'm blessed because, even though they are twins, sometimes it almost feels like they're not. Separately, they have their individual likes and dislikes. Together, they complete each other.

For those of you who are currently pregnant, I can't really give a lot of advice. I was blessed by the grace of God during my pregnancy. I didn't have morning sickness. I wasn't overwhelmed with cravings. And for the first two trimesters I hardly gained any weight...however, I made up for that during my third trimester! Once your bundles of joy get here, you'll adapt to the addition of two to your family. We relied on our faith to help us make the right decisions and choices that would help our boys grow into the fine young gentlemen they are now. I only hope that we make it through the teenage year!

In preparing for them to arrive, we found later on that we bought a lot of things we really didn't need. We had two swings and neither of them like them. We had two cribs when we brought them home and they insisted on sleeping together until they were 6 months old. The only purchases we made that were benificial were the thousands of diapers (we bought a pack everytime we went to Wal-mart!) and two bouncing seats. They loved those!!

Good luck to all of you in your pregancies and if anyone wants advice, I'll give you my take on handling certain situations and you can decide if it's something you can use!
Kathy
email: kmduke@hotmail.com
4/7/2006 at 1:08 (CT)
Hello Ladies-
My name is Donna,I have fraternal twin boys 20 months old.I saw a post asking for moms who breastfeed,well I guess I survived,as I'm still nursing them. I have enjoyed the whole process,was stating to wean them,but they went in hospital last month,and that started them back to nursing more.I have gone back to work part-time,so 3 nights a week I'm away from them,but dad is home with them.They had never been sick until they went in hospital,and I credit nursing them with that.They were not sick,but they had high lead levels,so had to go in for chelation therapy.I'm starting to try to cut them back again,but probablly won't stop until they are ready to wean,as this lead ordeal will be following them for some time yet to come.I strongly encourage any new,or soon to be new moms to nurse,and offer any help & support I can.When time allows,I'd like to become a lactation consultant for moms of multiples,as I realize the fears we have & the trials we go through nursing more than one.I also have recieved both positive & negative responses to my nursing them,and will gladly chat with anyone regarding it.I have openly nursed in public,and am discreet in that I will keep myself covered up enough not to be flashing so to speak,but I do not hide my children doing what was intended for their sustanence.I had a gental man who had older children commend me in line at the grocery,as I stood nursing one son,while pushing the other in the buggy.He commented on how it took a strong woman 7 it was wonderful to see,as his wife breastfed all of theirs,but he was very impressed that I was with twins 7 basically gave me a WHOOOWHOOOWHOOO!So the responses from joe public are mixed,but I continue on & appreciate the positive reactions.I have had my doubts at times which I dare say were fueled by i hope well meaning friends & family,which I have over come.Hope to hear from other moms,and am so glad to have found this site.Wish i found it alot earlier.
Donna E-mum to Sean & Noah,20 mon,& Devin,12yrs
Donna E
email: turtlemare@verizon.net
4/6/2006 at 23:05 (CT)
KarenMarie
w/ Nathan and Jeremy 5 months

Is anyone else breastfeeding twins? (Or did breastfeed and lived to tell about it?) I would love some stories for support!

Adlemi-- Yes, the exhaustion and m/s is very typical of a twin pg, but it does get better. My m/s lasted until about 14 weeks, and I was able to stop taking a nap after work about the same time. The important thing is to listen to your body or else you may end up on bedrest, which would be even harder on your family. Do more quiet things with your family, watch videos, read books, rest all snuggled up together on the couch. But make sure you get the rest you need!

Courntey-- Congrats! You are int he for the ride your life! =)

Fran-- The best thing my mom did was move in with me for 5 weeks! And she is here every month or so helping out. (She lives 2000 miles away!) I found that 2 bouncies were great, and I also have two swings. (I had a couple of very generous showers.) But the biggest thing is help, help with meals, housecleaning, baby care, support. Make sure she can get a nap everyday. (My boys didn't want to nap at the same time.)

Melissa-- That plane ride will be crazy. Is there anyone who might fly out to help you fly back? I am moving in 3 months (cross-country) and I am flying with my boys (who will be 8 months) so my mom is going to fly out and then fly back to help me out. It would be worth the extra plane ticket to have an extra set of hands, if not talk to the airline to see what support they can give you with checking in and getting through security, not to mention the plane ride. (You will need to go to the bathroom at some point, but you cannot leave them with people on the plane, so get friendly with the flight attentdants I guess.)

Jen-- Have you tried gradually reducing the amount they get at nighttime feedings? Or a pacifier?
KarenMarie
email:
3/28/2006 at 10:04 (CT)
I am 7 weeks preg. with Fraternal twins due to clomid. I am very happy and terrified at the same time. Hubby and I already have a 4 yr. old and a 2 yr. old. I find that with this pregnancy I am more exhausted than ever, i cannot get enough sleep. I am like an infant must eat every 2.5 -3 hours or I want to throw up. Is this typical of twin pregnancy. Also I feel guilty not being able to play with my kids as much due to lack of energy but since my last pregnancy ended up in a miscarrage I don't want to push myself either. Any thoughts?
Adlemi M. Lewis
email: calime@sbcglobal.net
3/28/2006 at 7:34 (CT)
Hello I am 17 weeks pregnant with twins. I found out at 5 1/2 weeks, but I am still very much in shock. I have a 6 year old and 3 1/2 year old. We are all excited, but still not sure what to expect. I just found this board and wanted to post and say hello.

Courtney
Courtney
email: acibailey3@aol.com
3/19/2006 at 0:59 (CT)
Hi, I have twins who are 2 years old, if anyone needs help on advice, I will be more than happy to share them with you.
Gina
email: chasekey@aol.com
3/18/2006 at 6:09 (CT)
19 month frat boys

FRAN:
Hi and congrats to your daughter and you!
The advice I have is don't go out and buy 2 of everything just yet......I found out that I was able to get by just having one each, such as 1 swing or 1 bouncy seat.
Of course she will need 2 of some things like infant carriers/car seats but other than that, I would recommend she wait until the babes are here before invests double for items. That also includes cribs. I, and other twin moms found that our newborns slept better when together so they shared a crib for the first few months. Once they start waking one another or it becomes too crowed then invest in anther crib, don't go broke until you need to lol.

Also, she will definitely need lots of your help, it is a blessing but also very overwhelming. I found that no matter how prepared I thought I was before they arrived, I wasn't. It isn't just a physical tiredness, it's also mentally draining and make sure you insist she takes a relaxing bath or nap even for a half an hour while the babes are being taken care of.
Many of us struggle along sleep deprived and stressed but eventually it catches up to you and it isn't good for mom nor the babies.
I am sure you are going to help as much as you can and will be tickled pink once they arrive........the novelty has yet to wear off on my mom and she is still the proud Grandma of twin boys.....even though they are getting into their terrible 2's and has given her more grey hair than she would like!!!! Take care!
Karrie
email: momwithtwins2004@yahoo.ca
3/6/2006 at 1:32 (CT)
My daughter and her husband just found out they're expecting twins Aug/06. Any suggestions of what to get or do before the blessed event? What did you find so helpful and you were so glad you got or did in preparation of the birth. I plan on being there to help as much as possible.
fran
email: frasuss@yahoo.ca
3/2/2006 at 6:26 (CT)
19 month frat boys

Melissa:
I travelled on plane by myself with my boys and it didn't go as planned. I thought I would wait until on the plane to give my boys their formula and that way they would eat then fall asleep.............not exactly.
Sure they ate then was drowsy but that was after all the crying and fussing from all the commotion of bording the plane, me being stressed out from the other passengers giving me "looks" because I am annoying them and then the pressure of the take off.
If at all possible, wait until they are older or work something else out so someone can be with you.
I also had my 9 year old daughter with me so I thought it would be a piece of cake, but boy was I wrong!!!!!
You didn't say what your method of transportation is but if it's by plane then the only tip I can give you is to make sure you are fully prepared for a long, stressful ride lol....oh and make sure your babes have either a soother or bottle while taking off and landing. I found out after the fact that it helps with pressure if they are sucking on something.
And at 5 months old, simply holding them against you, bouncing and whispering in their ear once you can remove them from their infant carriers can help.
Hope this helped!
Karrie
email:
3/1/2006 at 20:57 (CT)
I am expecting boy/girl twins and have a 2 year old girl already. We are 26 weeks along and I am very nervous about delivering early. Also, I will need to travel when the babies are only 5 months old. Any tips on how to get three kids and carry on luggage cross country by myself?
Melissa
email: melissajohnson03@aol.com
3/1/2006 at 4:12 (CT)
help... My 7mo. old girls are still not sleeping thru the night. They are plenty sleepy and fall back to sleep after being feed. Any suggestions??

Jen
Jen
email: mrsjbateman@yahoo.com
2/27/2006 at 3:31 (CT)
I have beautifual Twin Girls 13months and in need of ideas to feed them other than puree's,, can anyone sugguest a good book.
Wendy
email: Harbourwc@aol.com
2/26/2006 at 23:07 (CT)
I am a mother of 8 month old twin girls. I will be happy to share my experience with anyone.
Elwira
email: elwiraleonard@hotmail.com
2/24/2006 at 0:50 (CT)
KarenMarie
w/ Jeremy and Nathan, 4 months tomorrow!

Steffanie-- There is a chance you have pre-eclampsia. I had protien in my urine, and had to deliver my boys at 35 weeks. good luck

JJScoot-- Have you tried implenting a "quiet time?" Where everyone (including you) is on their bed for 1 hour after lunch every day. You don't have to sleep, but you have to lie down and rest. They could look at a book, or just rest. Chances are they will fall asleep.

Lyn-- My boys are not on a schedule but I would say to let the other one sleep to give you some one on one time with the other twin.

Jen-- You can start with time outs. No more than 2 minutes (1 minute for each year they are old.) But even kids that age can learn not to do something. Tell them "that's not okay" or "we don't hit people in our house." Give them a warning, and then give them the time out.
KarenMarie
email:
2/21/2006 at 10:55 (CT)
IM 34 WEEKS WITH TWIN GIRLS. MY DR JUST FOUND OUT THAT I HAVE PROTEIN IN MY PEE, & I HAD TO COLLECT IT FOR 24 HRS TO SEE HOW MUCH IM PUTTING OUT, HAS ANYONE GONE THRU THIS? I DONT KNOW WHTA HES GOING TO DO YET?
steffanie
email: RICKNSTEF@SBCGLOBAL.NET
2/20/2006 at 7:47 (CT)
I have twin boys that just turned 2. They are constantly fighting, and hurting each other. They especially like to pinch, bite and pull each others hair, sometimes for no apparent reason. Does anyone have any advice? Don't know what I can do for discipline, since they are so young. I am hoping they will outgrow it eventually.

Another problem we have with them is constant whining/crying. Any advice would be much appreciated, as we are at our wits end! Thanks!
Jen
email: buckjennifer@yahoo.com
2/18/2006 at 11:19 (CT)
My twins are 7 months old and have been on great schedules. My problem now if that it looks like one twin is evolving into a 30 minute napper mostly (just like his older sister) while the other twin will still sleep 45 min - 1 1/2 hrs. Do I still wake my better sleeper at 45 minutes (giving him 15 extra minutes than his brother)? This seems unfair to do to a better sleeper but I am afraid of getting them off schedule. Help!
Lyn
email: LynLeddy@comcast.net
2/9/2006 at 8:10 (CT)
My 28 month old busy little buddy grandsons do not like to settle down to a nap. I have tried them in separate rooms and in their own room in their own beds which they gladly go to sleep in at night. Help. I co-parent them and I need to rest and when they do not nap they get grouchy. Oh, I did not mention that I taught kindergarten anad first grade for 38 years and know the how to motivate young children, but all my brain power effort has not worked with this nap situation. Please help.
JJ Scoot
email: teeapo@aol.com
2/2/2006 at 8:58 (CT)
My husband has fraternal twins in his family and identical on both sides. Does that mean I could have twins as well. I am hispanic and I read that hispanic women don't have as many twins as other races but my husband is African American.
Lucy
email: toddnlucy@earthlink.ney
1/29/2006 at 22:06 (CT)
Hi everyone... I'm starting to introduce my twin toddlers to the potty chair.. does anyone know how the easiest way to potty train toddler boys..? any info would help.. thankyou.
Gina
email: chasekey@aol.com
1/29/2006 at 8:46 (CT)
Hi Karenmarie.. thankyou for your response.. all of us got out and went to the LA zoo.. it was nice.. I feel alot BETTER now..
about your twins nap.. what I used to do and still do, is wake them up at least 15 minutes apart and put them to nap at the same time... yours are little still.. so I know its hard, but get them used to the routine.. feed one baby for about 10 15 min. then put that baby to sleep and then wake up the other for the same thing and hopefully this routine will work... if you have any more questions.. feel free to ask me anytime..
Gina
email: chasekey@aol.com
1/29/2006 at 8:28 (CT)
KarenMarie
w/ Nathan and Jeremy 3months


Anyone have hints on how to get both twins down for a nap at the same time? I have a hard time with it when I am by myself. (And it usually means they don't get naps at all, which makes for tired babies and a tired mommy!)

Gina-- I know how you feel! It is so hard to be at home all day with the boys. (Even though I really wanted to be a SAHM, and still do!) Luckily dh is pretty understanding about it for me. I volunteer at the school I used to work at one day a week. And I have just joined a group of friends who scrapbook once a month. And LaLeche league is great, once a month I can get out, and take the boys with me. And since everyone has a kid, no one cares about a screamy baby. And I don't feel strange about nursing in public there. It is totally normal for you to feel this way. I would put your foot down and tell him that this saturday you are going shopping (or whatever) with a friend and he gets the boys for the afternoon. Or maybe get a sitter and go out with dh sometime.
KarenMarie
email:
1/28/2006 at 10:47 (CT)
Hi everyone.. I'm so glad there's a site like this one.. I have twin boys who are 20 months old.. I love them to death but right now they are in cahoots with everything... I'm amazed at the things they do.... I feel right now I need some time to get out for myself.. with a friend just to have some adult conversation.. Hubby comes home from work and relaxes.. thats fine with me.. but sometimes when the weekends are here he goes out with a friend golfing or goes out to a suchi bar and I'm home stuck with the kids.. I dont think he realizes that I need time for myslef as well.. I have talked to him.. he thinks I shouldnt feel that way.. but thats easy for him to say.. he gets a break.. mothers dont... I just need a friend to go out with.. at least for an hour and have some adult conversation.. anyone feel this way..?
Gina
email: chasekey@aol.com
1/27/2006 at 10:28 (CT)
MEG

WONDERING HOW YOUR TWINS ARE DOING? ARE THEY OUT OF THE HOSPITAL YET?
tanya
email: WINDJANA@TELUS.NET
1/11/2006 at 12:37 (CT)
KarenMarie
w/ Nathan and Jeremy 11weeks

Verenis-- I think I may be too late, but yes you can usually tell twins from an ultrasound.

Karrie and Heather-- Great! now I know what I need to look forward too! =) And I agree, at least I didn't have triplets!
KarenMarie
email:
1/11/2006 at 11:59 (CT)
Happy New Year everyone!

I have fraternal twin 2 yr old boys. I am a stay at home married mom to 4 kids. I havn't been on the site in quite a long time. Just been so busy as I am sure you all understand. I have 2 years of parenting twins experience to offer, but I am always looking to learn from parents that have older twins as well.

We are starting the boys on regular cups (getting away from sippy cups). Not too bad while the older kids are at school. But when the older kids get home the house gets a little hectic, so we go back to sippies in the evening.

One of the boys are starting to talk a little bit, but the other is not terribly interested in talking yet. I am not worried. My older son did not start talking until he was 3 yr old.

Hope everyone is having a prosperous new year!
Grace
email: tjohnson39@cox.net
1/9/2006 at 5:16 (CT)
Hi all, I just stumbled onto this site today and find it very nice indeed. I am a mom of 5, my youngest being 22 month twins, 1 of each....I LOVE EM!!!! They are so funny, I make myself take time to just sit back and watch them, the things they do....Anyway, no questions..just wanted to introduce myself...feel free to email me anytime you'd like to chat!!!
Alicia
email: krzymom5@wmconnect.com
12/20/2005 at 7:26 (CT)
Hello,

I am writing an article on redefining pantry staples. If you would like to share the healthy items you keep in your pantry, or share a tip or idea on stocking a pantry or shopping, or even share a recipe you make from pantry staples, please send me an email. You could be featured in the article which will appear in Family Energy magazine.

Thanks!
Donna Smith, iParent
email: donna@iparenting.com
12/13/2005 at 11:48 (CT)
heather a
BOYS WELL BE BOYS,, AND THEY DO GROW OUT OF MOST OF IT BUT THE OLDER THEY GET THE MORE THEY LISTEN..FEELING TIED DOWN MAY FEEL LIKE IT WILL LAST FOREVER BUT SOON THEY WONT WANT YOU AROUND..SO ENJOY THEM AND CHORES CAN WAIT..THEY ARE ONLY SMALL ONCE AND IN A BLINK OF AN EYE YOU WONT REMEMBER THIS STAGE..MY BOYS ARE 3 NEXT MONTH AND SOME DAYS I STOP EVERYTHING I AM DOING JUST TO BE WITH THEM..
TANYA WOODRUFF
email: WINDJANA@TELUS.NET
12/9/2005 at 2:03 (CT)
I'm 6 weeks pregnant
how can i tell if i'm having twins with out ultrasound?
I'm scared because i'm alot bigger from my belly than the usall due to my pregnancy
Verenis
email: vereramos84@yahoo.com
12/7/2005 at 4:05 (CT)
Karrie - thanks for the support - I like you're thinking... "twins rather than triplets!" I guess we just have to learn to roll with it and realize that there isn't much to do except try to protect them as best we can... I have been putting pillows and blankets all around the couch and chair - that way when they fall - they hit something softer than the floor! Thanks again - it's nice to hear I'm not alone!
Heather A
email:
12/4/2005 at 3:28 (CT)
16 month frat boys
HEATHER:
I am going through exactly the same situation. My boys have been climbing for months now....onto the couch, over onto the end tables then they will litterally dive onto whatever is closest. I have rearranged my livingroom several times and finally taken out ALL tables. I have a big screen tv and my one son has figured out how to climb up onto it.....without any help! He used to use toys to climb but now he cleaverly uses his toes and upper body stregnth to shimmy his way up. I had to see it to belive it.
Anyways I too feel trapped in the livingroom. If I leave for 5 minutes then I have to run back either to get one down from something or because they are fighting with eachother. The past 7 months I have been frustrated, they constantly are getting bruised up and little black and blue bumps are appearing on their little heads so I know they are hurting themselves....but they don't seem to get it. And discipline doesn't work, I mean what do you do when they aren't even a year and half? Saying no doesn't work at all.
It all seemed so easy with one baby, running around chasing after one is easy but 2 can be challenging.......when people say double the trouble they are right.
But I think to myself, hey at least I didn't have triplets!!!
Karrie
email: momwithtwins2004@yahoo.ca
12/3/2005 at 1:16 (CT)
I have twin girls that are a little over 13 months old and they have started to climb up onto the couch... I am unable to remove the cusions from the couch - and they don't seem to listen very well when I tell them to "sit down" - any suggestions???? I am worried that they are going to hurt themselves - but I also know that I am going to get nothing done around the house if I am forced to stay in the living room all day to prevent them from gettin up on the couch. Any help would be appreciated... thanks.
Heather A
email:
12/2/2005 at 11:04 (CT)
I WISH I KNOW ABOUT THIS SITE 3 YEARS AGO WHEN MY KIDS WERE SICK AND I WAS LACKING SLEEP AND ADVICE..TO THE NEW MOMS AND OLD FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL AND CHAT JUST TO CHAT. I HAVE 4 KIDS A GIRL THAT IS 9 MY TWIN BOYS WILL BE 3 IN JAN AND A 11/2 YEAR OLD BOY.
TANYA WOODRUFF
email: WINDJANA@TELUS.NET
11/22/2005 at 12:53 (CT)
Glad to see the site is ad free... I have not visited the site in so long because I was discouraged by the ads... but I will say I am so thankful to be back! I have 13 month old frat twin girls... and although they too were early, thankfully they are doing great - almost up to 20 pds. So for those worried about your twins being premies - here's a success story to help support you along the way.
Heather A
email:
11/18/2005 at 6:43 (CT)
KarenMarie
w/ Jeremy and Nathan 12 days (fratenal)

I hope we can get this site moving with lots of people. I love the other sites, I have spent a lot of time on the ttc board, and the pg board. The baby board is great, but I need twin mommy bonding!

Kimberly-- The way I have been getting extra sleep is to pump and leave bottles for dh to give. (I breastfeed when I can.) Also I leave them with dh or my mom everyday and take a nap. It is amazing what a single hour will do. And from what I have read, at 3 weeks, no baby is on a real schedule. Ask for help from friends to hold and rock so you can take a nap. And be specific. Say, I need a nap, can you come watch the babies. And then only get up if they are both squalling!

Cindy-- Yep! More so on your side, since you will release two eggs. That can be genetic.

Meg-- ((HUGS)) I cannot imagine how scared you are right now. I had one boy stay in the nursery a week, and it broke my heart. Are you pumping so you can bf later? My boys were 35 weeks, and both took a while to figure out how to eat. Give your little ones some time, and lots of love. There are some great books with advice on preemies out there. Their little systems need time to develop. One of the best things you can do is to hold them. I'll be praying for you and your twins. Boys or girls? Names?

Karrie-- Well between the two of us we can start this board again! =)
KarenMarie
email:
11/3/2005 at 2:57 (CT)
Hello everyone. I'm a "new to twins" mommy, my babies are just 3 weeks old. looking for any helpful tips on: getting them on same feeding and sleeping schedule so I can get just a little nap. Any other helpful tips are welcome also, I'm 24 and new to this!
Kimberly Harris Will
email: mrsharwill@yahoo.com
10/28/2005 at 9:54 (CT)
Twins run on my husbands families side. Both on his mom's and dad's sides. Does this mean that if I get pregnant, I am likely to have twins as well?
Cindy
email: cmorton@iwins.com
10/25/2005 at 1:22 (CT)
I just delivered at 24 weeks, twins. They are having so many problems, infection after infection and major respiratory issues...already 3 weeks and still not feeding. I am scared and need some encouragement..
Meg
email: mwardlaw@localnet.com
10/24/2005 at 9:06 (CT)
15 month frat boys
RE: differences to site
I appreciate the steps you are taking to limit the nonsense that goes on on this website and although it takes a couple extra steps now to put up a posting, it's well worth it! For all of us who where tired of the ads, we thank you and to those dedicated members who have since decided to not return due to those annoying ads.....please come back because we need your expert advice!! Thanks!
Karrie
email: momwithtwins2004@yahoo.ca
10/21/2005 at 22:29 (CT)



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